Re: Meet Mars
Posted by ~Ray @ 2008-11-13 11:19:00
With it recieving so much attention lately I thought this might be a good time to write about Mars in general - from a sun/moon AriesMars is the fourth planet from the Sun and is named after the Roman patron god of war and agriculture baring the same name. Mars rules over the sign Aries (named for the Greek god of war Ares) which begins in the month of March (again named after the Roman god) and is the first sign of the Zodiac. First and foremost. Mars is the planet of vitality - the flame of life that will not be vanquished. Mars is the engine behind the ego that drives it to express itself. As a survival tool of the mind the ego is a constructed consciousness which seeks to assert itself by defining its individual identity through self expression. In doing so it manifests the right to exist and the will to be. Mars is the assertor as ruler of ambition and the enforcer of its manifestation as ruler of passion. In fact all instinctive forces fueled by the fire of passion are in Mars' domain including sexual appettites and the need to perpetuate the species through procreation. Whether it is the socio-economic battlefield of civilization or the unforgiving wilderness of nature the right to exist is governed by one law; survival of the fittest. Where it is the strong who survive. Mars rules courage stamina resilience and physical prowess. When survival means adapt and overcome spontaneous Mars energy innovates and improvises to create advantages and overcome obstacles. Man's competitive nature and drive towards self improvement through competition are both ruled by Mars. Competition is the means by which the most fit are identified. Thus. Mars' signature trait the competitive need to be the best is the ego's identification with the right to exist by virtue of being the most fit to survive.
As we know textbook definitions of Mars categorize its scope in terms of our basic motivations excitements and the visceral and muscular instincts of territoriality aggression sex and fighting. Though all of these are undoubtedly valid. I have always felt there was something deeper missing about the essence of this energy that I have not read about in astrology books. Through my ongoing practice and life experience one of the core meanings I have derived from the Mars force is how its natal placement can indicate what a person actually -- deep down -- lives for. This bit about "what we live for" runs deeper than motivation and excitement though these can certainly be included and cuts to the raw survival nerve of what actually gets us out of bed each morning (or afternoon if you're a musician). Though I doubt that most people walk around consciously asking themselves the question "what am I living for?". I think deep down we all probably do that is until the question is answered. Deeper still i think we all want to actively participate more fully and live according to that vital and revitalizing purpose of what we live for. Any further thoughts from anyone about this ?
Sherpa,That was one of the reasons why I wrote a blog entry about living for something. I find that I may not care about anything and that troubles me. That might also have to do with my value system i e. Venus. My Venus being in Virgo and nearly unaspected it seems that there isn't much that I value thus not much that I care about or so it seems. "Being cared for" has some ring of truth to it. I don't stop my mom from caring for me when she visits even when I protest that I want to do things for myself (secretly I don't want her to stop caring for me). However a person can only do that for so long without giving something back. Maybe its just something that I can't switch on and off like I would like to do. I really do want to know what I care about tho. Pardon the existential crisis.
HI Sherpa,interesting , you asked:"Through my ongoing practice and life experience one of the core meanings I have derived from the Mars force is how its natal placement can indicate what a person actually -- deep down -- lives for. -- Any further thoughts from anyone about this "I tihnk this "what am i living for" is more related to the Sun -- the sun is the self beoming SELF -- or at least our attempts to derive a maenaing from life -- (Sun and Jupiter)I think Mars is "What is worth fighting for?"Mars is where we are ready to sarifice our happiness in order to do battle over our proinciples, but just how far are we willing to let those principles be eroded before we are willing to do battle.. What is worth fighting for what are we defending?Unless you are "living to do battle".. I think Aries and Scorpio may confuse these things though given mars rules them - they may see life as a series of battles -- IMO
"Unless you are "living to do battle".. I think Aries and Scorpio may confuse these things though given mars rules them - they may see life as a series of battles" Sam.. Yes sometimes passively but yes. Life is one long endless series of battles. We move or press forward reality pushes or presses back. I can see this as Mars is were we push harder. I think you can also equate mars energy w/ the will to live. What I got from this idea is a Mars placement might show were we find the strength to push harder from. Like Ok director. "Whats my motivation".. Vesta- what you find sacred??.. That more of a memory or Idea or feeling. Pallas-what is worth fighting for…same thing. An Ideal. Mars is the Pure action. The raw energy. Maybe to really determine this question you need to look at many things. But mars hold the orders and carries them out. Ok Saturn too.
ok i'm now over my initial surface processing of my aries martian ego and am reading the more serious stuff here... interesting - what am i living for or what am i fighting for... actually to me its about the same question i work for quakers they are quite pacifist when involved with what leftists call "struggle" they prefer not to use the word "struggle" they use the word "labor" instead i don't mind using the words "fight" or "struggle" or "battle" but i appreciated the consideration given in their choice of words they wanted to describe fighting as working i can agree with that there is something about the will to live that is inherently work even if it feels good sometimes it is fighting and struggling and battling sometimes its just maintaining the will to live the "initiation" or "drive" towards life i wouldn't know how to approach sun v mars in that light i wonder if in siderial astrology i am an aquarian that would make sense.------------i have thought about what what's worth living for since i was very young like 5 or something my dad was pretty big minded even then he was talking to me about people and life and the universe and what makes it all tick but it worked i never stopped thinking about that question altho i could never rely just on mars to answer that question for myself i would say that i'm a fighter whatever the case; that part of what i live for is what seems like a necessary fight for way more than just myself when i feel the worst is when i have lost sight of my role in that fight my aries mars is 2nd house which supports that its also conjunct my saturn like i said in the detriment thread as saturn is in aries (or is that fall?) anyway i feel the pull of the two and the fact that they are 2nd house.
The word context here has to with the nature of pain and suffering. Pain is found everywhere in nature is unavoidable and ment to be so. This is the reason that giving birth is refered to as labor - a task ( an enormous one just to witness let alone undertake ;-) requiring unbelievable self control and mastery over pain. Everyday labor - work - is pain. It occurs we deal with it we live the experience in the moment and we let it go. Suffering on the other hand is exclusively a human experience. Suffering comes from the pain we refuse to let go of that festers into resentment (to feel again). So labor is a reminder to let it go so as to avoid harboring resentment and the suffering that comes with it. Mars is most definately going to signify what is worth fighting for at the core - where it is you define the will to live. Like the original post states - this is the ego's assertion of individual superiority for the purpose of survival (sole survivor if necessary). As far as Aries/Scorpio seeing life as a series of battles and thus confusing all of life as a struggle - this will lead to suffering. To overcome this primal combative/defensive state is a fundamental task for the teenaged Aries/Scorpio. Some learn it well and know when to pick and choose their battles and know both the value of apparent victory and apparent defeat.
the survival instinct is inseparable from the will to live otherwise people would never commit suicide -- we are living for many things love beauty knowledge -- in fact when these things fail the survival instinct also fails - we are not just an instintive animal although the fight (Mars) or flight (Saturn) instinct is Very deep i agree. Yet the Sun defines our life - gives the vision and illuminates life -- every other planet is just an extension of the Sun - reflecting sunlight. When we were 8 years old the things we were defending and willing to battle over were hildish -- even as adults our reasons for battle change all the time -- as our truthful knowledge and clarity grow our will to battle beomes more refined -- yet our reason to live is always the same -- EVOLUTION to grow in truth and truthful awareness of SELF -- THE SUN! The Sun lights it up for us and Mars gives the daily strength to do battle, yet the clarity to fight the good fight and evolve comes from the Sun and Jupiter,. The Sun is the KIng. Jupiter is the MInister Mars is the warrior -- he takes his marching orders from the SUn and JUpiter.
"Mars is the warrior -- he takes his marching orders from the SUn and JUpiter."This is kind of what I was thinking. Mars is our own personal warrior the knight to our King (Sun). I think of Mars as not necessarily what we deem *worthy* of fighting for but rather the strategy of how we go about fighting. I think of Mars in Aries kind of like Mel Gibson in Braveheart sort of to the point.... Mars in Scorpio as a warrior at night setting traps to hear the enemy coming or whatever (maybe a ninja?)..... Mars in Capricorn as the fully decked out knight on a horse with the armour (warrior as career fully prepared/learned warrior)....... Anyway that's one way I use images to think of it but I think of Mars as putting on a costume in each of the signs energies (just like all the planets) but meaning the same basic thing to all of us. I wonder how different what we deem worth fighting for is? A child being hurt? Our own survival? Our own autonomy? Maybe it's a mix of both what motivates us to fight and how we do it but even if the styles are very different I think people have very similar motivations.
"Though I doubt that most people walk around consciously asking themselves the question "what am I living for?". I think deep down we all probably do that is until the question is answered. Deeper still i think we all want to actively participate more fully and live according to that vital and revitalizing purpose of what we live for. "Yeah definitely answers that question but I think it's the house it resides in that's most important. When I ask that question the immediate answer would be "the truth"-meaning also "the big picture" and my mars is in the 9th house. The sign tells me how to get there. My Mars being i Gemini i'll get there by reason and logic mostly. Or maybe I feel more "sagittarian" about my mars due to the mars-jupiter conjunction?Really dunno about these tight conjunctions. They're supposed to show blending energies but my Mars is also conjunct my Moon and sexuality and motherhood should never mix if u ask me. It's either sex or kids-never both-LOL.
Sherpa w/o quoting your whole 1st post. That is a good way to see this. I and many have had much attention on Mars."Lust for life" jumped in my head reading your post. I have asked that question many times. I used to want to talk about it when I was a kid. Though the more common "Why am I here" inters into this also. Though that is not the Mars part. More a combination of Dec. Mc and NN. Natal Virgo 10th-11th Mars w/ juno,Ceres conj in the 11th.. If mars is the seed. It determans what will grow. It would be the beginning energy of what we become buy what we have a fire for. Isn't Mars also seen as to what we desire. Yes I can see this. The story of what I live for is writen all over my Chart but it starts in the 10th 11th Cusp.. Hey I like this. It ends in the sextile to 9th Cancer Sun conj. Mercury.. I think Gemini /Taurus Moon likes this very much. The "Internal Warior" works well too. The more I look at Mars the more real he is becomming... Or she.. How about no gender. "the energy".
Another dynamic of MARS as it relates to the crux of "what am i living for?" is expressed through the active response of fighting to protect the territory of whatever i am living for ie. the valued turf. The nature of this territory. I think relates to the natal house Mars inhabits. Check it out for yourself. See if you do not have a fighting instinct to protect and defend the turf that is represented by the House your natal Mars inhabits. It's almost as if a sentry or soldier was sent to stand guard over this important turf and if need be fight and defend it from possible harm intrusion violation or invasion. Like the language of body's own immune system these military terms express part of the purpose behind the martial force of Mars: to protect and defend the valued turf. What makes it valuable is how it relates to what you are living for.
>> "Another dynamic of MARS as it relates to the crux of "what am i living for?" is expressed through the active response of fighting to protect the territory of whatever i am living for ie. the valued turf. The nature of this territory. I think relates to the natal house Mars inhabits. Check it out for yourself. See if you do not have a fighting instinct to protect and defend the turf that is represented by the House your natal Mars inhabits."Sherpa. That seems kinda weird to me. To explain I have Mars in the 6th house; that means that I am fighting to protect my work (6th --> house of work health daily) or to protect the mundane. Protect the mundane? Protect mediocrity? I don't think so. Now I have heard of Mars in the 6th refered to as the "slave placement". Basically someone whose energy is directed solely towards daily tasks. I believe it might have to do with my background than with anything current. Also it is the energy to accomplish any task. Got another view?
Brian,re: "To explain I have Mars in the 6th house; that means that I am fighting to protect my work (6th --> house of work health daily) or to protect the mundane. Protect the mundane? Protect mediocrity? I don't think so. "Your take on the 6th House may still be overwhelmed by stock textbook definitions. Look beyond the stereotypes (or break them into pieces) and into the essence. The 6th House follows the 5th House; after creative self-expression comes a time for distillation and honing of one's craft. The processes of apprenticeship temperence and the maintenance of order in one's life IMHO express more of the essential qualities of the 6th House. Maybe you can relate more with that. Sam,I disagree with your position around the Sun and Mars but I think this may be an impersonal difference between Tropical and Sidereal interpretations of the Sun and Mars. Mars to me expresses a more active/activating principle than the Sun which I see more as a process of becoming.. as in coming into being more than action which I relate more to Mars. I also think this distinction may reflect the western bias re: "Mars is where we are ready to sarifice our happiness in order to do battle over our proinciples, but just how far are we willing to let those principles be eroded before we are willing to do battle.. "This sounds like Mars in Virgo to me. Is Mars in Virgo in your western chart ?
SHerpa,i have no qualms with your description of Mars - just that this battling nature refers to "what is worth living for" -- I also have no doubt that you are able to integrate this into your readings in a useful way -- so nothing personal -- just discussing these ideas. OUr differences are not Sidereal. Vedic or anything -- they are conceptual. We fight and battle for a reason to defend a PRINCIPLE -- our principles come from Jupiter not Mars -- JUpiter defines. Mars protects - Jupiter is a planet of the Mind. Mars of action and the body - they work together. (hopefully)Yet those pronciples refer to THE GOAL - the highest truth we are seeking, which comes from the Sun -- always the SUn is ompelling us toward the light. Just like in mundane affairs we do not go to war to simply fight the war it is to win there is a goal -- The military is used because a principle based on laws (JUpiter) is not being adhered to and there is concern that these violated principles could threaten the stability of the central governmet / the real source of power (The SUn). So the momentary action of a war is used to ultimately strengthen and protect the overall goals. In the physical body Mars rules the adrenals he gives a momentary burst of energy to act agressively and defend ourself. In this moment he releases the poison adrenaline into our system so as to allow us to fight even if we are injured or are injuring others.. It is known that sustained amounts of adrenaline in our system is very harmful -- just as it is known how sustained battlin over time is harmful to the heart and nervous system and intelligence. The job of Mars is to destroy in order to protect, we have to makes sure he is destroying what must be destroyed rather than simply defending a lower worldly goal, or living for the battle itself.,,. This is not all Mars does it is one result -- he rules the vitality and strength and courage we have to meet our daily challenges -- as was said here and said everywhere.. I have no bone to pick with any of that -- just that these battles are not "what we are living for" in my opinion. perhpas some people are, but i think if you ask a libra or a taurus or a cancer or a pisces, etc. if they are living for fighting battles they would not agree -- Tome this is akin to the military forgetting the goal and simply enjoying the war, or thinking the war is the goal -- the war is not the goal -- winnning and ending the war is the goal -- Sun - king long term visionJupiter - laws and priniples philosophyMars - army puts it into action
A few more thoughts on this important subject and then i must get back to work -It is very easy to mistake the intensity and drama of Mars the thrill of battle the aliveness of the adrenaline rush and whatnot -- to actually be the goal itself and the reason we are living -- so I can see why this happens - Yet i think this is also why such atrocities are committed once a war begins - if we are not careful with mars our morals and principles will slide in all directions one that anger get opened up. ON a deep level Mars is also the quality of mind that will justify anything inluding murder. Mars is the black and white concept of mind - good/bad/ - right/wrong is mars thinking - you or me -- This has a deep survival impoerative as noted so it feels real in the moment. Mars teaches that it can be very east to lose sight of the goal in the heat and thrill of the battle.. I see this in relationships a lot -- some people just like to argue and want to win the argument rather than find the truth and how to fix it it (Jupiter and Venus)--this is the same thing. They lose the long term goal of JUpiter and the Sun in the momentary thrill of Mars.
re: "I see this in relationships a lot -- some people just like to argue and want to win the argument rather than find the truth and how to fix it it (Jupiter and Venus)--this is the same thing. They lose the long term goal of JUpiter and the Sun in the momentary thrill of Mars."As a serial monogamist who mates for life (or breaks up trying). I have seen the fallacy of trying to "fix" every argument. Not all conflicts can be or should be fixed. It seems that some arguments between lovers express such genuine conflicts of values or interests that they cannot and should not be fixed.. I think many relationships break up not because they were unable to get "fixed" but from those deeper conflicts that do exist without any chance of resolution. This may sound hard-nosed and is certainly far removed from any high-minded ideals yet it happens all the time. Perhaps you are intimate with such irresolutions yourself. Serious relationship arguments is a good time to examine natal Mars to determine whether the conflicts can become creative and productive or whether they are acting as warning signals for both parties to part ways before they destroy themselves and each other.
Sam,Thanks for adding more dry data to the roaring Mars bonfire. It's good thing to read many different angles on how this under-rated astrological symbol can be interpreted. I understand the astrological formula you stand by and I think it is a good one some of the time but not one I would personally appy to every horoscope reading. So you know that I understand the essence of what you're presenting here. I include your distillation:Sun - king long term vision Jupiter - laws and priniples philosophy Mars - army puts it into action I find this formula attractive and accurate as an ideal; it makes perfect sense and is eloquent. However. I find it somewhat impractical and even erroneous as a model to superimpose over each and every chart. Permit me to explain what I mean by sharing something of how I approach Mars in the horoscope readings I do. How I find the core principle of "what someone might be living for" is through a confluence of connections starting with the sign and natal house placement of Mars. Then. I look to the ASC (as the ruler of the 1st House) and to the house placement of the planet associated with whatever sign Mars is in. These pieces make up the Mars puzzle for me. I do not automatically assume that Jupiter and the Sun will be involved; sometimes they are sometimes they're not. I can see the truth behind your associations of Jupiter and the law though I think government structures tend to be more Saturn related than Solar related. I can see how the Sun can indicate a governing figurehead like the king or president but as we know figureheads are often trumped by other hidden governing factors (GW Bush may be our best local example). In real life. I have found that people do not always act (Mars) in accord with principles (Jupiter) or with their best interests (Sun). Often times people may not even be aware of what principles they find worthy of living by. See for yourself by asking anyone on the streets: "What are the principles that you live for and act by ?" If you videotaped their responses. I think you would have a fascinating sociological documentary. Many of us often act out of and fight for totally irrational reasons many of which have little or nothing to do with the noble notions symbolized by Jupiter and the Sun. The Mars force obviously can and does work its energy out in many other ways. And so my point here is more of a pragmatic interest in how peole actually act behave and assert themselves rather than exploring any ideal of self-improvement or enlightenment. I'm interested in finding out what you perceive about where I am coming from with this thanks.
thanks sherpa,of course explaining how I (or any other professional astrologer) goes about determining the ethics and principles we are fighting for is subtle -- I did not do that in my reply - and do not have time to now maybe later my methods are a lot more complex than the basic ideas of the relationship between the sun Jupiter and mars - Yet these ideas i am presenting can show astrologically the archetypes of how our daily battles (mars) can get out of synch with our long term priniples (Jupiter) that define our life purpose and goals (Sun)When these planets join or associate you will se a harmony - when they do not you will see a person fighting for the wrong things in their life engaged in principles not aligned with deeper vision (A Jupiter/sun disconnet) Vital strength not aligned with their priniples (Mars/Juptier disconnect) etc. When two or more of these things associate it aligns them. I am discussing this more philosophically at this point as your philosophy of "Mars is what we are living for" seems to fall short for me."Mars is what we are fighting for" makes a lot more sense to me. But I am glad you make it work - I am not saying you are wrong.!
"In real life. I have found that people do not always act (Mars) in accord with principles (Jupiter) or with their best interests (Sun). Often times people may not even be aware of what principles they find worthy of living by. See for yourself by asking anyone on the streets: "What are the principles that you live for and act by ?" If you videotaped their responses. I think you would have a fascinating sociological documentary."Ha-ha. That' true. Some would lie with clear conscience if asked though. Principles are too private. But the way I see it. Mars is more of a "back-up plan" for the "what am I living for?" question. It reacts when life hits u and u are forced to react rapidly to survive.- and what do u do? U turn to good old-fashioned instinct. My Sun in Pisces in the 7th conjunct Venus in the 6th made me live for art beauty harmony love justice and all that.."sugar spice and everything nice". But a few disillusionments later. I'm living for a "higher truth". (Mars in the 9th)I've adapted. Became a fighter and a "player". And I'm a Pisces. I hate fighting and competing. It insults the wisdom of my old soul. And I still feel like life's too short to fight and my greatest frustration so far has been having to adapt to human society and law. Some years back when someone would tell me "life's a battle". I'd reply something like.."Oh wake up and smell the flowers on ur tomb!"But now I'll just shut up or say "yeah" in a bored weary tone of voice.
Greetings,A special buddy (who's wonderful) just sent me the following from other buddies and now I'd like to share this with you. Love. Bob 69Mr. Mars ApproachesThis month and next. Earth is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The next time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit astronomers can only be certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last 5,000 years but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens again. The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to within 34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the brightest object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and will appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification. Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars will be easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east at 10 PM and reach its azimuth at about 3 AM. By the end of August when the two planets are closest. Mars will rise at nightfall and reach its highest point in the sky at 12:30 AM. That's pretty convenient to see something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So mark your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow progressively brighter and brighter throughout the month. Please share this with your buddies children and grandchildren. Peace and Vitality!
I can determine mars influence in friends of mine: my bf has an Aries stellium with Mars. Venus. Sun and Mercury and he is VERY volatile with his temperment. When he goes to battle he really goes to battle. He's a fight now regret and ask questions later. I have a friend who's got Mars in Scorpio in 5th house. I don't know if 5th rules sexual energy but he's practically sex on 2 legs. Me. I'm totally different. My Mars in Aries 10th should make me active in finding my place in the world or in a career atleast. I've been kinda lackadaisacal in that however. Well not until recently. But depending on the chart my H10 is intercepted. In terms of "principles" vs "actions," I've got Mars square H2 Jupiter so that might explain the complacency on my part. For me. Mars is so innate and natural. When I see people with strong Mars placements--first of all. I should say I have an uncontrollable magnetic pull to these people total sexual attraction--I see an innate involuntary drive and resilience. There's such a tenacity to them that they seem to not even be aware of. It's interesting thatyou guys mention "battle" because I feel like this is what thrills strong Mars people. They are always at the gates and everything is a battle--not necessarily for what they want but for what "moves" them. Sherpa you are dead on about the principles thing. I asked myself that question and I got nothing. But something that just occured to me is that perhaps I've internalized my Mars energy? I'm always being told how "tenacious" I am but I never feel that way. But I remember a period of my life where I've spent months upon months looking for a job. Even when I really probably should've. I never gave up because it was important to me to get to the finish line to win what I felt was a battle to get where I wanted to be. It wasn't something I expressed outwardly however. I just sort of did it.
I have Mars in Cancer in the 6th house conj the moon which rules both the 6th and 7th house and is conj the 7th house cusp. Mars rules the 3rd house in my chart. I find that I am very "defensive" about maintaining my own home. (Mars/6th) and won't tolerate anyone "bad mouthing" me in my own home or at work. I am a very hard-working loyal painfully honest direct moderately and fairly competitive and obedient "employee." I am also a very giving and devoted partner and I place a premium on communication. (Aries/3rd) no matter how aggresive so long as it is honest and true on an emotional level. I would defend anyone who is "undefended" or being bullied even if I don't know them even though I am only 5'2" tall and weigh about 125 llbs! LOL! I have a fierce spirit when it comes to defending those I love or myself much like a mother bear defending her cubs. I am fearless and don't back down from anyone. I always win without blows.
My Mars is in Sag in my loaded 4th house with my moon. NN and Neptune nearby but not conjunct. I do feel that for me my house placement does play a large role and I agree with Sherpa's ideas on it possible being "what you live for". I have a moon in scorpio that is very powerful also in this house.. and I feel that I live for emotional and soul transformation. The 4th house has many meanings being one of the water and more mystic houses the mother the end of things in the horary chart.. but also that which is deep within us. I feel that having Mars in this house for me more then causing the mudane "domestic strife" is about strife within my "own" house. In a word the "house of my soul". So I live to push myself.. to evolve. "Pain is the shell that encloses understanding"A friend of mine the other day sent out an email about summing yourself up in one word that could tell people what and who you are. I had trouble with then and then finally cam up with RESILIANCE. I think Mars shows this.... although I also have lots of squares and Opp involving Saturn so that could be part of it too... [ADVERTHERE]Related article:
http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/9011151b-ccf1-4cae-9392-0a8ac4cdf1c7#1aa4d8f1-2a00-4f61-9bd9-f079830e8053
0 Comments:
No comments have been posted yet!
|
