Re: The Quincunx
Posted by ~Ray @ 2008-11-13 11:20:21
I would like to ask anyone that might possess an in-depth knowledge about this aspect to express themselves here,because I'm seriously confused. I've read several articles about this aspect,and they all seem to have different theories about how it works. And I've also noticed that the accepted orbs vary a lot from site to site. Some sites allow an up to 6 degree "error",while others only go as far as 2 degrees. So,which is it?Does it depend on the "parties" involved,aka the planets? I got curious about this aspect,cuz I'm suspecting my Midheaven makes a loose quincunx to Saturn and Neptune,and so does Uranus with my Moon,Mars and Jupiter.,despite the fact that they weren't mentioned in my astro com profile... That would mean a lot of quincunxes in my chart. And,since according to the cafeastrology article about aspects,a predominance of a certain aspect in one's astro makeup could heavily influence one's personality,temper,general "manifestation of energy",I'm extra-curious about this aspect. That would put my chart under the influence of 5 squares and 5 quincunxes,as opposed to just 5 squares... That article,however,doesn't say anything about the quincunx,or what a predominance or lack of this aspect in a chart could indicate. Here again,starts another debate. Is this a minor or a major aspect?Is it not worth considering?On the astrologyweekly site,it appears in every planet's "aspects description" section,along with the other major aspects:conjunction,trine,sextile,square and opposition. And lastly,what kind of energy does this aspect imply?And how can it be dealt with?If my intuition tells me the truth,it must show some king of "blockage",as opposed to the smooth flowing energies of the trine and sextile,the focused energies of the conjunction,the torn-by-indecisiveness energies of the opposition,or the "fire under ur ass" energies induced by the squares. Any thoughts?Would really appreciate it.
As I understand it the crux works like the 8th house works on the Acs. Change. The idea is the the 8th is the crux-er and the Asc is the crux-ie.8th affects the Acs but the Ace doesn't affect the 8th. So look to the planet 30 deg behind the others opp position this is the crux-ie affected by the Crux-er. Example My Saturn cruxes My sun. The Sun is 151.+ deg after Saturn.2 deg orb My Mars cruxes Saturn. Saturn is 148+ deg after Mars. So my sun is affected by an Rx Saturn. I feel this w/ the Saturn squares gives me a deep rooted insecurity I deal w/ daily better and better as I learn how. But mars is Saturn’s cruxer.. This I feel gives me a fire to often jump in w/ both feet through this insecurity and struggle my way to... well what ever is that is the current Mars goal.. As far as the orb. 2 things to consider. 1 is it before or after in orb. And 2 did this aspect tighten up or loosen after time of birth. I’d give it more weight if is came tighter after TOB. In your first few min hours or days depending on the planets involved you experienced this energy strengthening. Checking each planets speed you can see what happened w/ this aspect. Another thing in considering orbs. Is this:Exact and the energy is at it’s strongest as the orb widens this energy looses steam at what point these have no affect to each other is subjective. This for all aspects. Wider orbs when Sun Moon are involved. Tighter for outer planets. Though I think standard is tighter for these oddball aspects. 2 deg maybe 3.. And definitely w/ the outer planets. Slow movers so and aspect can last for months. Which is another thing to consider. Is this something unique to me or common w/ ½ the folks born the same year.
The first misconcpetion about quincunxs is that it is a minor aspect not needing as much consideration in chart-interpretation than trines sextiles conjunction etc. The truth is the quincunx represents one of the most basic "major" aspects which are BASED ON THE RELATIONSHIPS OF THE ZODIAC SIGNS THEMSELVES.. and in increments of 30 degrees. The quincunx being a 150* angle pertains to the methodology of the sign Virgo somewhat.. because Virgo begins at 150* from the symbolic beginning of zodiac. Quincunxs often cause a certain "itchyness" either in a personal chart or in a synastry chart.. and they indicate places where we fuss over details trying to get things perfect. It so happens that quincunx relationships between people often cause a certain amountof frustration.. but it can be a healthy type of frustration which makes people try especially hard to work our their differences very resourcefully. Frequently quincunxs produce a tense yet ongoing sexual relationship which could be very satisfying if other things in the chart(s) warrant it. Quincunxs produce a kind of ultimately unsolvable equation that a person or two people will never be able to completely solve yet there is always the itch to try.. kind of a perpetual compulsion to work something out together. EXTREMELY IMPORTANT!!!QUINCUNXS ARE ALSO THE ONLY ASPECT THAT CAN GEOMETRICALLY CONNEC T ALL THE SIGNS OF THE ZODIAC TOGETHER WITHOUT PICKING UP YOUR PEN ! You can draw a sextile between two signs and continue spanning 60* all the way around but the in-between signs will be missed. Oppositions are like spokes in a wheel and represent the integration of opposites but still the inegtrated opposites need to integrated once more. ONLY THE QUINCUNX has ULTIMATE CONTINUITY! Observe: Aries --> Virgo --> Aquarius --> Cancer --> Saggittarius --> Taurus --> Libra --> Pisces --> Leo --> Capricorn --> Gemini --> Scorpio --> AND BACK TO ARIES. Total integration without picking up your pen. And by the way in case you didn' t know.. if you actually drew what I just described you would drawn a PENTAGRAM of which the Quincunx is the most basic element. In my own chart I have an exact quincunx between Jupiter and Saturn...(Sagg to Taurus. HOuse 1 to House 6)... and both these planets are at their anaretic (29th) degree. I like to call a quincunx a "pseudo-opposition" sometimes. A true opposition intgrates two signs which complete each other.. that is they are both right where each other are both wrong at different times. For example: Pisces removes boundaries. Virgo draws them. Both these signs blended together will cool Virgo's compulsiveness for order and will help Pisces organize things in their nebulous disorganized inner existence. In some cases one is right and in some cases the other is right. But with the quincunx both people can be right about the same thing at the same time while still disagreeing wildly!!! That's the whole mechanism and psychology behind the quincunx. This is because they are both seeing a small truth which applies to a larger truth which neither can see alone. Quincunx relationships usually are found when two peopel split hairs 1000's of times over to make points with each other. It is more instinctive for humans to assume an opposing stance to that which disagrees.. so people often try to deal with a quincunx as an opposition which yields infinite hairsplitting which in turn yields 1000's of tiny truths without ever reaching any kind of wholeness or completion. When one can see past the disagreeance and realize that truth A & truth B are NOT opposites and are BOTH TRUE.. and part of a much larger picture.. then the quincunx becomes a very positive thing. In Music the quincunx relates to "perfect 4ths" and "perfect 5ths".. which are really the same thing depending how you look at it.. and is one of the most basic and harmonious combinations of notes there is. It delivers a soft happy sound and is the basis for the most basic and romantic dance known: the Waltz. The quincunx is about the ideas of "many truths" vs. "one truth". Both of these are true.
Great info here. A couple other things to consider about the quincunx:1~it is the only major aspect* whereby the two planets involved do not share either a quality (cardnial fixed or mutable) or an element (fire earth air water). Example: Venus in Taurus (a fixed earth sign) quincunx Neptune in Libra (a cardnial air sign). Trines of course are always in the same element (fire earth air or water) and squares are in the same qualitiy (cardnial fixed or mutable).*Oppositions and sextiles are admittedly not in the same element or quality either that said they are in either a earth/water or a fire/air combo. Either of these is considered essentially of a compatable nature and thus do not share the same kind of stress as a quincunx.2~Because of this and because of its 150 degree angle a good place to start in interpreting its influence is that of acting like a "blind spot" in one's chart. Often we can't clearly see or feel it's influence without a focused effort to do so. Hence we get "blind-sided" here (depending upon the planets and placements involved). A good visual for this is like when you look into your side mirror and don't see the truck coming up on your right side because it is in this blind spot. Yet if you make the effort to turn your head and look you will see it blessings,elizabeth
"A good visual for this is like when you look into your side mirror and don't see the truck coming up on your right side because it is in this blind spot. Yet if you make the effort to turn your head and look you will see it. "Nice!My experiences with quincunx:Leo/Libra-Pisces:pluto quincunx sunIC quincunx sunAlso my family is strongly leo/libra and I felt this quincunx energy throughout my life in a gigantic family yodish structure. It was intense (Hi allan) and it was painful and required lots of adjustment. I got my face rearranged whereever it sagged out of line kinda - not physical abuse or anything - but.. it was just.. a demand to purify the weaker natures of my piscean self and bring out the best and only the best (not that I succeeded - but I have seen myself grow a lot stronger because of my leo and libra family memebers pushing me to the positive view of things and not falling into a watery pile of empathy and bringing out the more altruistic and artistic piscean qualities while beating the pittying wallowing parts to a pulp)And actually for me this is a yod-kite with sun opposing my Nnode+saturn in virgo. How could the universe say it more clearly... SHAPE UP YOU PISCES SUN! Only the best will do from you and therestmust diiiiiieeeeeMC quincunx NnodeMC quincunx moonneptune quincunx moonNever noticed that double yod thing there... One flows into the other... I need to think on that!I like the thought of "connecting all planets without lifting the pen" that is interesting ty FJ
Yes because signs in quincunx to each other have absolutely NOTHING in common. They belong to a larger group of aspects called inconjuncts which also include semi-sextiles.*Conjunctions usually involve all the same qualties. *Oppositions always involve the same triplicity (cardinal fixed or mutable)with different elements.*Trines involve the same element.*Sextiles involve either "masculine" or "feminine" signs but not both. *Squares involve the same triplicity... but inconjuncts have NONE of these qualities in common. Inetrestingly enough. I have seen numerous times somewhat successful lasting relationships involving inconjuncts. Taurus+Saggitarius. Aquarius+Virgo. Scorpio+Aries. Capricorn+Aquarius. Aries+Taurus. Virgo+Libra and Libra+Scorpio seem to be the most common ones.. at least in my experience. One must keep in mind that the issues of several houses are implied by inconjuncts. The 12th and the 2nd apply simultaneously to semisextiles because if two planets are semi-sextile then one is symbolically in the other's 12th House and the other is symbolically in one's 2nd house. Both planets represent important Karmic lessons for each other in tying up loose ends and in teaching the values of things whether spiritual or physical. Because of the 12th to 2nd House connotation it becomes a symbolic sextile relationship which often needs just a little more work than a real sextile to reap any benefits. Now in the case with the quincunx the distance between the signs imply a 6th House and and an 8th House connotation (symbolically Aries to Virgo or Aries to Scorpio). 6th to 8th implies sextile again... and sextiles in turn imply that something very good can be done with a little concious work. Each and every sign has two signs that quincunx it. For example. Gemini is quincunx to both Scorpio and also to Capricorn. Scorpio represents Gemini's 6th House and Capricorn represents Gem's 8th House. This will be same for every sign of the zodiac where each and every one will have a symbolic 6th House and a symbolic 8th House quincunx. And with two people involved in a quincunx relationship one will assume a 6th House role and the other will assume the 8th House role --> Generally the person in another's 6th house will influence teh way they work and attend to details. The other will be reciprocally in the first person's 8th House effecting their deeper emotional processes sometimes producing sexual attraction and an intense awareness of the "give&take" in the relationship. Perfect example: My Sagg Jupiter is quincunx my girlfriend's Tau Mars. She represents my 6th House while I represent her 8th in this case. She tends to influence my habits and the way I take care of details and I tend to help her transform her inner self through her psychosexual relationship to me. Sounds a little like marriage! It's funny because the quincunx produces exactly the type of "itchy" rapport an old couple has after 40 years of mariage where they are joined atthe hip but peretually bicker as they both "fix" each other's every shortcoming. Funny how the longest-lasting relationships seem to end up like this. I think that's because of the continuity of the quincunx-based Pentagram. As I said earlier only the quincunx can allow you to draw lines between all the zodiac signs without ever picking up your pen. The quincunx is the most logical path to completion.. because it is never complete.. so you never stop looking. In this way a quincunx is like the proverbial carrot hanging in front of the donkey's nose.. which explains why it produces sexual attraction if two people like each other for other reasons. Now try to picture this relationship between two planets going on inside one person with a quincunx in their chart.
That's a fairly loose quincunx. I usually allow an orb of up to 4 degrees and you just made it. It's important to realize that an orb can actually vary from person to person. Some people are more sensitive to different things within THEMSELVES because of the signs involved within them. For instance. Aries may perk up at a challenge so if there is a loose square somewhere in an Aries chart.. then the Aries might be more likely to act on it and respond to it than to a more tranquil sign. In your case. Chris... Pluto is in Scorpio the sign that is symbolically trine to Pisces.. so this might be acting very lightly as a trine too. Alot will depend on the house cusps that those planets are in. My guess is that you probably don't expereince verymuch ofthe quincunx although you may sometimes when certaintransits could favor the quincunx instead of the trine for these two planets. Astrology is kind of flexible at times. Just remember quincunxs are marked by a kinf of itchyness.. or a tease.. like a carrot in front of your nose. Remember that Pluto rules your potential for transformation and the Sun is your self-expression. It could be that from time to time (due to particular transits) that you will experience a desire to create or expess in a way that facilitates big changes in your life. If the quincunx is really operating you might dabble around with different creative endeavors trying to set off a certain something that will change your life. This might happen in little bits and pieces.
hmm i dont have a trine.. but my venus is trine pluto in pisces and neptune is sextile pluto and i think pluto is my final dispositor in my chart though i can't be certain. im still new to astrology thanks for your input FJ i'll try to keep in mind these ichy tease feelings. i have a lot of aspects in my chart that are difficult so what you said i relate to but have also read similar explanations to other aspects in my chart i have a lot of squares to neptune in my chart and jupiter in capricorn which i think creates a lot of confusion and illusion for me bascially meaning. i sort of see the world in overly romantic ways so i think a lot of moments are transformative and special (mars in scorpio too) i think thats why i am into astrology even though i have so much air in my chart that i dont really believe in it as pure fact more agnostic/divinitive practice i dont know astrology can be so confusing sometimes i might be over thinking it.
i just realized i also have chiron 28'44 Quincunx pluto 1'37 and chiron Quincunx neptune 1'22 in capricorn this is true i am always trying to be of a higher tune and explore all realms and playing constant devils advocate because i know and see connections between everything constantly i am never quite comfortable with my progress either there is a constant itch to keep going i am lazy now and i think i wont make any progress till im 40. though everyone around me looks up to me artistically and in resilient ways i am forever looking inward it seems and hardly see my own gifts lately ive given up on art mostly because i feel like i cant afford school and its so about who you know and i couldnt pull any stunts for attention because it makes me too uncomfortable.. i think part of what makes me a good artist is part of what makes me so furious at all things beauracratic and to me i see art as something you uncover i know that you create things. but i think anything could be created so all things must exist and it really is about having good observational skills that undoing pisces archetype is such a pain.. i just wish i was buried deep into the coldest hardest earth crevices at times so i could just get on with it and create art like i want to my chart is the most confusing contradiction i dont get it
{what do u mean by "is it before or after in orb"? }I should have said befor or after the exact. Let take my Mars 149 deg before Saturn. Mars is the cruz for Saturn. Meaning it is in Saturns blind spot. Though Mars has a good veiw of Saturn. Saturn is 149 deg after Mars. If 150 it would be exact. Mars moves faster than Saturn so this exact was before I was born. I got the waining of this aspect. Because Mars is faster this deg would get less and less in my 1st few days of life. Let say Mars was 151 deg before Saturn and if anything went retro making this aspect last longer I'd give this more weight. I havn't seen yours but check if it's before so in the 1st few days ect of live this aspect got stronger and stronger. ??Another thing that occures to me though in actual function I'm not sure but any 2 planets in signs that are a natual crux to each other. Example Sun in Cancer Saturn in Aq. Would have this Crux energy with each other even if it didn't fall in the 150 deg. The aspect shows a focus we have on it. As though This Sun might be cruxed by Saturn w a 160 orb though it might not nessisrily be something I "feel" strongly. If that makes any sence..
Mark:I stand corrected but upon further examination I found that so do you! ;-)(Yup guess I'm losing my visualization skills in my old age! Tee tee!)A pentaGRAM is made up of 144* angles but a pentaGON is made up of 72* angles. The lines of a pentagon don't overlap they just connect while the lines which construct a pentagram do overlap. A pentagram is theorertically based on the following sequence: 0* Aries 24* Leo 18* Capricorn 12* Gemini 6* Scorpio 0* Aries(return)A pentagon is theoretically based on this sequence: 0* Aries 12* Gemini 24* Leo 6* Scorpio 18* Capricorn 0* Aries(return)*Note that the points are the same but the relationships are arranged differently. What I was talking about before (although admittedly NOT a pentagram) was pointing out the fact that the quincunx is most obtuse aspect one can make between two planets and still have a continuous infinite sequence.. and create a closed system of aspects which also includes ALL the signs of the zodiac). No other aspect besides the quincunx can do this. The quincunx shows how we can reach the absolute farthest outside ourselves and still remain connected to ourselves... WITHOUT having the proverbial mirror of "otherness" that we would get from an opposition. This obviously would cause some itchy tension which is something that characterizes quincunxes. That brings me back to Virgo the sign on which the quincunx is based. Virgo is in fact the last sign and lesson of the development of "self" before Libra starts dealing with "otherness" as it passes the 180* turning point of the zodiac and we begin to look in the Universal Mirror. This is why quincunxs often give people special useful abilities which they can use in service of others. In accordance with Virgo that is the highest expression of self without actually entering into a personal relationship (a Libra thing).
I was surprised nobody mentioned (or maybe I missed it) how quincunx energies effect a chart within a Yod or Finger of God formation. I agree with you Mantis inconjuncts are very hard to understand. Only because by their energies they aren't easily defined. I haven't noticed too many quincunxes in my own chart but as I mentioned. I have a Yod aspect involving an H11 Taurus sun quincunx both H6 Sag Nep and H4 Libra Pluto. My stab at this: Nep and Pluto are both on the same page (inner transformation based on a foundation emotionally reliant on the security of found in/with others and daily transcendence in self adjustment on the search for inner truth) but that H11 Sun is all like "what are you talking about? I just want to sit here and make friends and indulge in my dreams!"SO then I guess Pluto and Nep are like "well that kinda sounds like fun" and I need to re-direct that energy there. I need to make them all come to an understanding and work together because initially there isn't one. [ADVERTHERE]Related article:
http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/b2dd00ba-610f-4542-87e7-b449270b2600#d0845fd7-9824-44e9-bfef-10379423ec96
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